Manfred / Oz visits Tampa Bay, Free Agents & A Curt Flood Christmas Story

• Caleb Durbin – more like Dustin Pedroia or Jon Berti style of player?
• Durbin is Electric
• What can we expect from the Blue Jays in the AL East
• Blue Jays pitching is getting older but not as dominant in past years
• What do they have for pitching in the minors 
• Willy Adames encourages Corbin Burnes to join the Giants rotations
• Free Agents at large – Tommy Pham, Charlie Morton, Kirby Yates, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, 
• Many older pitchers may wait until mid-season until they sign like Roger Clemens
• Other pitchers still as free agents include Patrick Burnes, Jose Quintana, Sean Manaea
• Tampa Bay Rays need more experienced leaders for their team – Charlie Morton & Jason Heyward
• Wizard of Oz, Rob Manfred came to Tampa Bay
• George Steinbrenner Field – Yankees Spring Training 
• Stu Sternberg strategy for the future of the TB Rays ballpark 
• Pinellas County Commissioner Chris Latvala loves MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred
• Will MLB pay the cost overruns for the new Rays Stadium and find a new owner for the Tampa Bay Rays
• George M. Steinbrenner Field – 2025 Home Field for Tampa Bay Rays
• How will a healthy Brandon Lowe, Josh Lowe & Jonathan Aranda impact the 2025 season
• Janet Marie Smith, VP of Planning & Development – Fenway, Camden Yards & Dodgers Stadium
• Christmas Lobster Dinner with Mat’s family – plus breakfast Creamed Lobster with Scrambled Eggs
• Strawberry Pretzel Dessert Dish Christmas favorite with Mark’s family
• Curt Flood’s Christmas Eve letter to Bowie Kuhn – precursor to Free Agency
• Ted Lindsay – linchpin of the players union in Canada – another courageous player who fought for the rights of all players
• Curt Flood issue with Cardinals and they did not want to pay his salary
• Flood collected the first hit in a major league game in Canada. 
• General Hospital has nothing on Major League Baseball
• Comparing Nolan Arenado’s & Curt Flood’s experience with the Cardinals
• Christmas wishes – no blackouts of ballgames
• Remember to thank those who serve us both near and far away
• Reminder to serve others who are in need or people who do not have someone to celebrate the holydays with.

Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas. Ho, Ho, Ho,

Just a reminder you can find Mat at  M-A-T-G-E-R-M-A-I-N dot bsky social. That’s @matgermain.bsky.social  or Mark at @baseballbizondeck.bsky.social

Transcript

BaseballBiz On Deck 267 Christmas Show

[00:00:00] Mark Corbett: , Oh, it's Christmas week here at baseball biz on deck. And, and Matt and Mark are here to stuff your stockings with all the great news about baseball. Is that too, is that too crude? Maybe. Oh, Hey Mat. How you doing, buddy? 

[00:00:17] Mat Germain: I'm doing great. I've got my elf hat on and I'm full of candy canes.

[00:00:24] Mark Corbett: Oh, oh, I've had an elf on the shelf and he's trying to tell me a thing or two about this season. It's going to be up and coming. And he was hanging around the winter meetings, but I think he wound up in the lobby lounge too long. So I can't read some of the things he wrote on this long script. So we'll just have to come up with our own.

[00:00:45] Mark Corbett: Oh my gosh, brother. What a week. I mean, it's just been insane. There's, we talked about the repercussions of Soto. My goodness. So what was going to happen after he said yes to one team and he wasn't the Yankees, AL East, there's a lot going on there, but Brian Cashman, he's made some calls. He's made some decisions.

[00:01:12] Mat Germain: Yeah, he's, he's, he's touched up, , three key areas for them. He added, , Zach, uh, or sorry, Zach. I said, Max, uh, you had a max free Devin Williams and Cody Bellinger. Uh, and you're talking about, you know, the versatility of Cody Bellinger is a huge asset in that case. I don't think he was exactly, somebody that they were.

[00:01:35] Mat Germain: Uh, they had to bring in, they could have gone other avenues, but because of his positional versatility, he's really great. And Devin Williams, we all know from the Brewer's Days, he's a, shut down closer. , Max Fried will give them the innings that they're looking for behind, uh, Gerritt Cole or alongside Gerritt Cole, depending on how you view them.

[00:01:55] Mat Germain: And so, yeah, he's been busy. He's definitely, uh, You know, I think he's put yankees fans at ease that he's he's going to address things as they come up Unlike the blue jays which are basically sitting on their hands right now 

[00:02:08] Mark Corbett: yeah, I can't imagine being a blue jay fan because They, they talk about, yeah, we, we were thinking about, oh, we were even thinking about Corbin Burnes

[00:02:15] Mark Corbett: we were thinking about Soto and we were thinking about Max Fried and it's like, come on, guys. You can think about a lot of things, but you got to make it, you got to make some action. You got to put something actionable behind that. But so Fried, they got Max Fried for eight years for 218 million and Devin Williams, he, he, he came with a trade.

[00:02:34] Mark Corbett: Um, he was at Nestor Cortes, a guy a lot of people love to hate. I just love him. Period. But, uh, with his little dance, um, stance up there on the mound, the way he kind of dangles himself, he winds up getting a balk more than times than not. I think when he does that little dance up there on the mound, but he, uh, he's going to the Brewers.

[00:02:55] Mark Corbett: Wow. 

[00:02:57] Mat Germain: Yep. And I honestly, I know he's involved in the deal, but I don't think the Brewers are focused on him at all. I think the Durbin. I don't know if many people noticed his performance in the AFL and before that, to be honest, but he's turned himself into like, So there was talk before about whether or not he was going to be a Jon Berti type of player, or a Dustin Pedroia type of player.

[00:03:24] Mat Germain: And the more the season went on, and the more it dragged through the AFL, the more he's looking like a Dustin Pedroia with speed. With like, plus plus speed, which is just ridiculous. Like, if you've watched the interviews with Caleb Durbin, he's got a thick, thick, thick neck, and he just looks sturdy. He looks like somebody that's going to, you know, uh Just put us a swing.

[00:03:49] Mat Germain: That's well beyond his stature, which is only five foot six, similar to a whole ZL two of eight. So I, I, I'm really looking forward to see what he can do for the brewers next year. He'll be in the mix. They've got a really versatile mix , of infielders. So they'll move them around quite a bit, I imagine, but, , he's electric and I'm glad he's not with the Yankees to be honest.

[00:04:11] Mark Corbett: . Coming back to what you're saying though about about the Blue Jays. What, what can they expect? I mean, I was looking at a post you had on Blue Sky earlier this week and you had a list for ALEs 1 through 5. Maybe it was MLB who came up with that list who was gonna be at what position as far as the power that they saw today and, and the Blue Jays I believe was at the bottom of that list, weren't they?

[00:04:34] Mat Germain: Yes, and a lot of that has to do with their starting pitching although the the front, you know Two or three depending on how you view them are strong They've also shown cracks in the armor and are getting older Kevin Gossman Chris Bassett, you know They're they're in the mid 30s now and neither of them looked dominant to say the least last year They had moments of dominance They could be dominant, but there's a lot of it I don't know.

[00:05:02] Mat Germain: And then beyond that, you have, um, José Berríos, who's great. I love José Berríos. Uh, but, You start looking at four or five and beyond in the minors, and there's just not a whole lot there to support them through 162 games. Um, a lot of their top pitching prospects have been hurt. So I just think when you start there and then you you have the issues that they have with scoring runs and you add that into it.

[00:05:28] Mat Germain: Yes, adding address from him and as is going to help them defensively, and provides protection for Bo Bichette but if you're They really need to add two bats at least to that lineup before I start taking them seriously and possibly move them around. 

[00:05:45] Mark Corbett: You and I both were talking about last week and about, you know, even looking at, oh my gosh, Vladdy Jr.

[00:05:51] Mark Corbett: And how long will he stick around after the end of the season? Will he still stay there? If they aren't making, Actions that look like to build and strengthen a team to, to be a championship team. You know, even if, even if we're not talking World Series, at least a post season, something that's going to look strong enough that it's not going to be laying at the bottom of the AL East.

[00:06:12] Mark Corbett: It saddens me, but hey, that's, that's what they do, or that's what they don't do. You know, I was going, going back to the Brewers for a second. And looking at, at Nestor going there, looking at also from the Brewer's perspective, looking at the, uh, they lost the Adames. So he's with the Giants now. And reason I bring that up is he's trying to get another fellow Brewer to come to the Giants. That's Corbin Burnes. I haven't heard any more on what's going on with him, but he's a well sought after asset to any team. 

[00:06:49] Mat Germain: Right. I think to me, the Giants would be great for Corbin Burnes because he needs parks that are going to keep the ball in and that's why he did really well with the Orioles as well.

[00:07:00] Mat Germain: But I, I personally feel like when you're looking at a team going for it and really set on making the next 3 to 5 years, like the years that they are competing, I can't think of a better place for them than the Cubs. Um, I think they are lacking just that front end. Ace starter, my game one guy. Um, I don't think they have it yet and I think it would solidify their entire rotation all the way through.

[00:07:27] Mat Germain: I think they have the money now that they've made a few moves to shed some salaries, uh, Cody Bellinger being one. Um, so when you're looking at their roster, their outfield is elite. It's great. Uh, love it. Their infield is very, very, very solid. There's a, you know, still players that need to prove themselves, but I think you look at the team as a whole, that frontline guy is what they're missing now, and I think Corbin Burnes would be a perfect fit.

[00:07:56] Mark Corbett: Well, let's take a look at some other folks too, Mat. As I was looking as far as free agents, I think Tommy Pham still out there. Good old former Ray, uh, Charlie Morton, another former Ray's out there. And a few other guys, maybe a little long in a tooth, you know, it's, you can never trust anybody over 30.

[00:08:14] Mark Corbett: That's what they used to say when you were under 30 years old. And now everybody says that about baseball players, but see who else we have out of Kirby Yates. He's a 38 Scherzer is 40. Wow. I don't know, brother. I see these folks and I can say they've delivered so much. We can't necessarily expect the same amount of innings, the same amount of speed, but we've talked in the past to looking at the players like Nate Eovaldi who still has some speed but has so much control.

[00:08:49] Mark Corbett: He can locate that ball. I mean, he can control it where it's going to be more than most. Uh, what do, what do you see when you, you look at some of these older guys, do you, do we think we're going to see, uh, decent contracts? Do you think any of 'em would be still out there on the limb when it's all said and done this year?

[00:09:06] Mat Germain: , the older pitchers are, are kind of interesting 'cause none of 'em have announced their retirements yet. You still have Max Scherzer or Justin Verlander, Charlie Morton, uh, a lot of guys that can provide. , maybe 120 to 140 innings of really, really high quality. But what you'd be basically aiming to do is to get them at their best for the playoffs, because that's when they're at their best and they're, you know, they're most valuable to your team.

[00:09:33] Mat Germain: So when you saw the Dodgers last year survive, like the insane number of injuries that they went through on the pitching side, um, or the Rangers have to deal with theirs and sink. Because of them, uh, you, you know, right away that you never have enough pitching. So I think some of these guys might wait till mid season.

[00:09:54] Mat Germain: You remember Roger Clemens used to do that? Uh, he'd get 20 millions, uh, regardless when he signed late in the season, just because then he'd save his bullets and, and he'd still get his money. So I think Max Scherzer and Justin Verlander in particular are guys that you're going to see possibly go use that.

[00:10:11] Mat Germain: Route just because they're worn and they're not really, I don't think feeling their best to kick off the year and then go through an entire season might be asking a lot from their arms. So, uh, Charlie Morton, though, is one that I could see a team still banking on a rotation role if he deems himself healthy.

[00:10:33] Mat Germain: I think he's very intriguing. Another guy that stepped up his game last year. You know, which is I don't know where he's gonna land and how much is patrick corbin 

like he's 

[00:10:43] Mat Germain: a lefty Uh, he's a really great clubhouse guy went through heck with with the the nationals He just had a really hard time for a while of finding, you know, his his stuff again But now he seems to have found it.

[00:10:57] Mat Germain: He was doing great with the nationals who were competing I mean he could go back to the nationals, but you know if need be but I think he's one guy that could really help a team. Let's say, like, the Braves. The Braves are looking for a patchwork of people to fill in a few spots and to give them some experience after they lost a few big guys.

[00:11:18] Mat Germain: Maybe he'd be affordable for them. Jose Quintana is another one that's hanging around. You have Sean Mania. You know, there's still a lot of innings to be settled and we're only, like, waiting. We're a month and a bit from, from spring training, you know, month and a half, let's say, so these guys don't have forever, um, to figure it out and decide where they're going to go.

[00:11:44] Mark Corbett: Yeah, it's going to be a Pitchers and Catchers report, you know, sooner than we think. And I look at some of these guys, and I think, I mean, Charlie was with the Rays a while back, but even then, a lot of people considered him a veteran, and they bring a certain knowledge to the team, and I think the younger players looked up to him and learned things from them that they're not going to learn anywhere else.

[00:12:09] Mark Corbett: So I think there's a real value to having some of the players on their team. And like you're saying, save the bullets for, uh, but that's, that's one way of looking at it is they're saving what they are able to bring to the game if they come in a little later in the season. So I don't know. We'll, we'll see, man.

[00:12:27] Mat Germain: One thing that I would add to for the Rays . They need some leadership and they need guys. They can't leave it all to Shane McClanahan And they can't leave it all to Yandy Diaz to be the leaders. They need more experience So two guys that I think the race can afford that they should bring in Also to help the young guys as they come up, you know from the minors and they're not gonna get in the way of anyone I don't think they're either of them are looking for more than a one year deal.

[00:12:54] Mat Germain: I would be Charlie Morton and Jason Hayward 

No 

[00:12:58] Mat Germain: Jason Hayward is just like when you talk about plus plus makeup both him and Charlie Morton have it in spades Uh, he's got a great arm still Uh performed really well in Yankee Stadium and in Fenway and in in uh, Camden Yards so Through his career. He's done really well those parts.

[00:13:18] Mat Germain: I think his bat would play well in that Yankee ish stadium that the Rays are going to be playing in. Uh, so I think, you know, he, he wouldn't be demanding everyday playing time. And so he would give you another guy that you can plug in when you're going up against the lefty. And, um, Or late in the game when they put on the lefty from the pen.

[00:13:41] Mat Germain: I think he would show guys how to work, how to do things. He has a lot of experience. You know, he's been through some great organizations. Started off with Bobby Cox, with the Braves. He ended up with the Dodgers and spent a lot of time there. So, in between, he's been to great organizations as well. I think he has a lot to share, a lot of knowledge, and he'd be a great addition that wouldn't break the bank.

[00:14:05] Mat Germain: And then when Chandler Simpson's ready to come up, they can decide, you know, if everybody's healthy, who they want to pass on and who they don't. He could actually become a tradable asset at the deadline as well.

[00:14:17] Mark Corbett: Well, there's no doubt his wisdom, and I think even his easy manner. would be beneficial to all those young Rays.

[00:14:24] Mark Corbett: You did bring up something though that I love to talk about, and that is what's going to be happening with the Rays this upcoming season. And we had a little bit there at the beginning, but basically that comes because I've seen, recently seen Wicked. And, uh, the Wizard of Oz and yeah. And you pile on top of that, the commissioners being in Pinellas County of those days, it's like it was, it came to a wild nightmare.

[00:14:54] Mark Corbett: That's where they came from. So, but, but thinking about the team playing over there. And George Steinbrenner field. So your team is the Tampa Bay rays and it's not Yankee stadium, but it's George Steinbrenner field that you're going to be playing in, I think it's about 11, 000 in a seating and it may make it larger.

[00:15:16] Mark Corbett: I don't know what they can do. It's a short period of time, but it is going to be interesting. We've talked about how they're going to try to work to schedule and they have less days in the heat, but there's no way of getting around some of the issues with the weather. I, uh, had the good fortune of talking with some people from the Rays organization about a week ago in just kind of a group setting.

[00:15:39] Mark Corbett: And one of the people was with the ticket office. I said, , tell me a little bit. So it's going to be a little different this year, isn't it? , yeah, it is. I said, , are you, Talking with your, uh, season ticket holders. Are you telling them it's going to be a more intimate experience? And they said, yeah, that's, that's a good way to spin it.

[00:15:58] Mark Corbett: But, if you're looking at buying your tickets, it didn't like you just go online and you go ahead and pick the way I think they're setting it up. The way they're setting it up is you had to put up like a hundred dollars just to be almost in a lottery to get a seat. They get you a place in line. And then I think they start reaching out to the people for the highest price tickets and the highest price things first, once they get those filled up, then they'll go down the line and continue to sell the rest of the seats is my understanding.

[00:16:27] Mark Corbett: So this is going to be very interesting from a business perspective. And you know that they're. They've got one extra day to get things set up, I guess, from the time the Yankees have finished up their spring training there till the Rays are able to come in and start getting things, have something of a Rays feel in a Yankee stadium.

[00:16:49] Mark Corbett: Oh gosh, it's gonna be fun. 

[00:16:53] Mat Germain: Yep. I think, uh, the interesting thing to me is the whole who owns the development rights in the area. That they want to develop. And, and I think, um, you have, uh, a lot of, of interests that don't really recognize who has the best hand everybody thinks that they have the what we call the nuts in poker They think they have the nuts when really they don't The person who has the nuts is Stu sternberg.

[00:17:26] Mat Germain: He gets to say what happens Simply because they own a stake that is so significant in the redevelopment of 6. 5 Billion dollars in the region that they really can't ignore any gripes that he has. And that's the sad truth. Counselors can can, you know, look brave and loud and clear, but in truth, they're powerless.

[00:17:49] Mat Germain: If they don't agree to terms with Stu Sternberg and do basically what he wants in the area when it comes to funding the stadium, he can pull the plug on their development. And just, you know, be the cog in the wheel that won't turn, um, and go elsewhere and do other things and let his money grow and the stake in the, and in the property value go up.

[00:18:10] Mat Germain: And, um, you know, he won't be at a loss. Uh, so. So in this whole fiasco, that's the sad truth of it all is that, you know, we, we can all say what should happen. We all know that the way it's going on is not ideal, but I think, um, I think that the hard truth is that council basically has to come to an agreement with Stu Sternberg and the Rays on covering a portion at least of the overruns, even though the agreement they signed said no.

[00:18:43] Mat Germain: Now, having said that. How is the tack? Sorry. How is the taxpayer group going to take that if they do or when they do, you know, are the politicians going to be strong enough to be able to spin it as Oh, look, we're saving a 6. 5 billion investment, or are they going to be run up the flagpole to say, you know, you actually went back against the agreement that you signed with the Rays and you gave them something that they don't really, they shouldn't get per the agreement.

[00:19:16] Mat Germain: So, yeah, it's such a weird situation. 

[00:19:20] Mark Corbett: Well, I would, I'll quickly say that one of the opponents, I think it's Chris Leffler on the commissioner, he had changed his vote from a no to a yes. And the reason was partially from a conversation he had with Rob Manfred. He was impressed enough to think that Manfred was going to be able to write the shift ship and let's try it again, write the ship and, and directed captain the ship.

[00:19:51] Mark Corbett: But as you stated, I believe the owner of Mr. Sternberg is the one who's going to be able to do that. You know, there's, I think you and I both have seen some comments back and forth about, Oh, you know, once this happened before with some owner in the, they basically MLB said, Yep, we're taking the team away from me.

[00:20:10] Mark Corbett: I don't think that they're going to take the team away from me I think there will probably be some push from mlb To stew and matt silverman. Do I think it's going to be anything that's going to shake the world? No, I think that the people who voted for this will have a leg to stand on because In a sense if you're one of the commissioners Well, if you didn't vote yes now, Stu does get the land development no matter what, and that would have been that.

[00:20:41] Mark Corbett: So I see that they have, uh, they have a defense that they can put out there for any criticism they may get, but I don't know where it's all gonna land, and I don't really care anymore. 

[00:20:57] Mat Germain: I hear you, man. I really do. I think it's so sickening the dollars and the milking of the taxpayers has just become, uh, you know, almost a farce.

[00:21:11] Mat Germain: It's gotten to that point where it's just okay enough, like it doesn't make any sense. Everybody is sick, sickened by the price of tickets, the price of parking, the price of concessions, the price of everything that pays for all this. And it pays to pat everybody's pockets, you know, they hand you a half billion dollars and then you're still.

[00:21:30] Mat Germain: sticking out your hand for more. Um, I just think, you know, at some point you have to say no, you have to say, if you want to leave, leave. I think what happened is Rob Manfred said, uh, that if he doesn't, if he, if the Rais and Stu Sternberg decide, no, we don't want to pay the cost overruns. I think MLB said, we will pay the cost overruns and then we will force him to sell the team.

[00:21:58] Mat Germain: I think that's what Rob Manfred 

said. I 

[00:22:00] Mat Germain: think that MLB will put their foot down as to if raw and he did it for the sister city concept They said no you're not doing that. So so I think that's what they will do again They'll say okay. You won't pay this cost overrun that you signed a contract that said Specifically that you would cover this 

So 

[00:22:22] Mat Germain: now We will cover it And we'll find an owner that's worthwhile of being in Major League Baseball and and we'll carry on and to be honest, there won't be any skin off of MLB's back is because they've had to change how many rules because of the reasons to Sternberg and I guarantee you the next owners aren't going to be pushing that envelope the way student.

[00:22:44] Mat Germain: So, I think, you know, they'd be getting a stone out of their shoe if that were to take place. Um, so I think they're MLB is almost daring to Sternberg. To not pay that, that extra money for the year that they're going to have to wait extra for. And I, he's spending around 200 million. I really don't think it's that much.

[00:23:06] Mat Germain: Maybe you can sell me on, you know, 25 to 50 million, uh, but when you're a billionaire, you're supposed to be able to cover that, especially, you know, with the number of investors and ways that taxes have of actually nullifying the majority of that to begin with. I think sticking out your hand at that point is just a slap in the face to all taxpayers who deserve the money more than you do.

[00:23:30] Mark Corbett: Yeah. Yeah, I'm, this past weekend, drove over, drove over St. Pete and Pass-A-Grille, and then, you know, the beach over there. I'd say that looking at some of the businesses in that small little part of Pass-A-Grille, discovered that probably 80%, 75 percent of the businesses are reopened. And the devastation, most of it, a lot of it's been cleaned up, but there's still, you can see, just, it's immeasurable.

[00:24:02] Mark Corbett: So, when you see the starkness of that. And you see what seems to be almost gluttony about worrying about, Oh, look at me. Look at me, Mr. Almost a billionaire in the pain I'm in and it, it doesn't sit well. So I, I really hope that it gets to the situation where MLB does say you got to sell the team. So we'll see.

[00:24:32] Mark Corbett: Anyway, I was talking about it longer than I wanted to, but I did want to say 

[00:24:37] Mat Germain: Forrest Gump said it best. He said, that's all I got to say about that. 

[00:24:43] Mark Corbett: I'm with you, brother. Oh gosh, but I am good. I am looking forward to seeing the team playing over at George Steinbrenner Field. I want to go over there to those early days and get, get Before all the hottest part of the year comes to be and catch a few of those games And the same person i've stopped with the race.

[00:25:03] Mark Corbett: I said well, uh, all I can think is when veck was with the Race for a very short period of time did fireworks inside the trop. I said at least you'll be able to do them there She said oh, yeah, we got that planned and a lot of other things so it will be interesting to see What marketing, what promotion, what, uh, fun that they put out there in the game, that'll be different at this, uh, over there with Mr.

[00:25:27] Mark Corbett: George Steinbrenner's state legends field. Um, I'm looking forward to it, man, actually. 

[00:25:33] Mat Germain: Yeah, I think they should have the dog's landing pad and right field for Brandon Lowe, uh, you know, because I think he's going to terrorize that that short porch or whatever you want to call it in right field. I think he's going to hit a lot of home runs and, you know, the.

[00:25:52] Mat Germain: The health is always going to be the major issue, but the Rays have three left handed bats that are really intriguing. I also think Logan Driscoll and Ben Rortvedt will do well in this park as left handed bats depending on which one is used as the backup catcher, but Brandon Lowe, Josh Lowe, and Jonathan Aranda are really going to have, you know, if they're healthy, which are the three that were hurt for what, how many months to start?

[00:26:20] Mat Germain: 2024. If they're, uh, healthy to kick off the season and play to their abilities, anything can happen with the race because they have one of the stronger staffs in the American League. 

[00:26:33] Mark Corbett: Well, yeah, I think about this too, you have them healthy, you have them over at George Steinbrenner Field, which in many ways replicates what you would see at the Yankee Stadium in New York, right?

[00:26:45] Mark Corbett: So basically, you wind up playing all those games there at George Steinbrenner, but when you play the Yankees, you're going to be the same field that you've been playing at home in many instances, many ways. It's about the distance of how the field is, whether it be right field, left field, etc. I'd really be curious to see if there's actually a benefit to having, uh, playing at the same field twice, so to speak.

[00:27:11] Mat Germain: The whole season is going to be a quagmire of, , between them and the A's of who can actually, you know, build the roster in the best possible way to match the field in a short period of time. So the rays have already been making some moves and reshaping some of the roster.

[00:27:30] Mat Germain: You know, Danny Jansen will be a great addition will strengthen the lineup. But I think. The park aspect. I mean, sometimes it gets overblown, right? Like somebody will highlight a player and I'll say, Oh, look, he should be grabbed, you know, by this team because he's done well in their park. And I'm like, yeah, but he's not going to face the same pitching.

[00:27:48] Mat Germain: He's going to be on the other side of it. So there's a lot of ingredients that go into it. So Yeah, it's definitely going to be a lot of fun though, and it's just, it's going to be very strange to have a very Yankee centric entity host the theme that is from that city and should be in that side, but isn't.

[00:28:12] Mat Germain: Like, when you, when you look at that entire scenario, it's so backwards that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Uh, it just mystifies me. I don't know. 

[00:28:23] Mark Corbett: Oh my gosh. Oh, you know, I mentioned earlier before the show have a Janet Marie. Smith on the show and she's been basically an architect, engineer, designer for Camden Yards and some different things that went on with Fenway and now Dodger Stadium.

[00:28:41] Mark Corbett: And I think I'm gonna have to ask her about planning and one, just, you know, about the limitations of, What you're able to do, whether it be the land that's there, uh, the, the restrictions of what MLB says, you have to have distance in certain fields. I'm really curious. You got any ideas, anything specific?

[00:29:04] Mark Corbett: You think we should probably ask her? 

[00:29:06] Mat Germain: I do. It's funny. You should ask. We know that expansions around the corner, right? So I don't know if she has any involvement with, with the. The franchises that are looking at potentially making a bid But I know like Montreal for instance when they went through the process of the sister city stuff They had to get vetted from MLB with what their plans would be where the stadium would be I think there was two or three different versions that ended up, you know Being thrown around, uh, but ultimately they're getting a new roof, like, you know, so my questions to her would be, has she been involved in the Salt Lake City, you know, area for stadium ideas, Nashville, and also how would she redesign the inside of the Olympic Stadium in Montreal?

[00:29:52] Mat Germain: To make it a more, you know, MLB worthy location because now that they're getting an 870 million roof, what they need is a new revamped inside altogether. And I know that the Rogers center went through. So. Are those things that she would want to tackle and what would her ideas be for those? 

[00:30:12] Mark Corbett: Well, that is a great question.

[00:30:14] Mark Corbett: I'm definitely gonna offer that up to her when I speak with her tomorrow We'll probably have her on Next week. I know next week's christmas. So We may that may be the show 

[00:30:26] Mat Germain: Or christmas eve. I I recommend that that's always the best thing 

[00:30:30] Mark Corbett: Hey, you know in christmas eve As far as traditions and such, do you and your family, do you have certain things or places you go for the, for the holiday?

[00:30:39] Mat Germain: We actually have lobster dinner every Christmas Eve. A lot of my wife's family are lobster fishermen. And so, uh, the, the in laws like to, uh, purchase some lobsters from them. We, we have a big feast and then we go to church basically that, that night and, uh, have the, the big celebration. I think my daughter's playing, uh Uh, on the piano at the ceremony this year, so it should, or at the service, I should say ceremony.

[00:31:07] Mat Germain: Um, so it'll be an interesting time, but that's our, our main tradition, and then the next day, or the festivities, you know, the opening, the presents, and everything else happens here. And a little tip to, you know, people that don't have lobster often. We always keep, so we do a creamed lobster, right? Then it's on this, you know, bread, two layers, if you're like me and you like a lot of lobster, and it's a creamed lobster, but we always keep some extra.

[00:31:34] Mat Germain: And if you mix it in with eggs in the following morning, and you do scrambled eggs, it tastes wonderful. 

So that's what 

[00:31:42] Mat Germain: we have for breakfast is lobster eggs. Uh, and then, uh, we also have minced meat rolls and a whole bunch of things because we do it slow. We're slow paced in the Christmas morning. It's, it's very one at a time, opening the stocking stuffers all the way around.

[00:31:59] Mat Germain: That usually takes us to lunch. We have some pie And then we get onto the presents and we do the same routine all over again, and then we have our main meal So yeah, it's a lot of fun. 

[00:32:15] Mark Corbett: I love that man. I love a good traditional Christmas and you know with Most of our Karen, most of our kids all grown, it's different, but I did love that.

[00:32:26] Mark Corbett: And of course, the time when, you know, both my parents and Karen's mom was still alive and getting everybody together. You know, around the tree, going to church, oh my gosh, all that, and, and leading up to that. The whole thing, whether there were the Christmas concerts, , the gathering of friends and, and children at, at the different events leading up to Christmas, all that was so much fun. So I certainly miss that now, being a little bit older. But, but my wife has done a great thing as far as making sure she brings the family together. So some in Tallahassee, some Orlando, we're here in Tampa Bay, uh, others up in Louisville, Kentucky, where we hailed from originally. And my father and my brother and his wife, my nephew are all up there.

[00:33:13] Mark Corbett: We all gather in Louisville and We were up there for about a week. We, we do the Airbnb and we just get together. We feast, you know, we have, we have a dinner, a nice dinner with all the fixings, you know, and it's, uh, different folks pick up 

[00:33:31] Mat Germain: this feast. I need details. I need to know what you're eating. Like, well, what is the main, like, if we didn't have these three things, it would not be a worthy feast.

[00:33:40] Mark Corbett: Well, There's, we'll have a ham. There'll be a ham that was either get, uh, a heavenly baked ham, a heavenly ham, it's got one of the brands actually around here, or a nice big turkey. And sometimes we wind up getting both of those. We don't actually usually cook those up. My son in law, might, he's, he's getting very creative.

[00:34:00] Mark Corbett: He's a good cook as well as a great law enforcement officer. But , he does a lot. And my daughter, she does also. She cooks up there, Whether it be potatoes, new potatoes and mixed in with some other vegetables, it's all kinds of things. There's a, oh, and then then for the dessert, it's the, was it pretzel jello and cream cheese dessert?

[00:34:24] Mark Corbett: Yeah. You ever seen that? 

[00:34:27] Mat Germain: No, I haven't. I'm gonna look now. 

[00:34:29] Mark Corbett: It's like a cream cheese. It looks like a cream cheese. If you're looking at it, one of those Pyrex, casserole to the bottom has a nice cream cheese look to it. Then it has, uh, those, like those little mini crackers, excuse me, mini pretzels crunched up and it's put in with like a, a red, Um, Jell O, strawberry Jell O, and it's cut up pieces of strawberry with it, and it is just to die for when you have that, uh, all together, it's, it's amazing.

[00:35:00] Mark Corbett: So that's some of the fun things we do. 

[00:35:02] Mat Germain: That sounds like a strawberry shortcake on steroids. 

[00:35:05] Mark Corbett: Oh, it's, it's something, man. And It is something, but, uh, you know, kind of getting away from the personal aspect, one thing I think about each Christmas too, is. On Christmas Eve in 1969, a man sat down and wrote a letter.

[00:35:28] Mark Corbett: And that man was, was Curt Flood. Now, he was with the St. Louis Cardinals and had been with them for several years. I think, actually, it may have been 12.

[00:35:38] Mark Corbett: This is a letter that Curt Flood wrote. To Bowie Kuhn back on Christmas Eve, 1969, and here's how it goes. It's also CC to Marvin Miller, who is a union man for Major League Baseball, and Mr. John Quinn, who, uh, my ignorance, I don't know who the man is, but he's on there as well.

[00:36:02] Mark Corbett: Dear Mr. Kuhn, After 12 years in the Major Leagues, I do not feel that I am a piece of property to be bought and sold, irrespectively of my wishes. I believe that any system which produces that result violates my basic rights as a citizen and is inconsistent with the laws of the United States and of the several states.

[00:36:29] Mark Corbett: It is my desire to play baseball in 1970, and I am capable of playing. I have received a contract offer from the Philadelphia Club But I believe I have the right to consider offers from other clubs before making any decisions. I therefore request that you make known to all major league clubs, my feelings in this matter, and advise them of my availability.

[00:36:56] Mark Corbett: For the 1970 season. Sincerely, yours, Curt flood. Well, man, that was the first shot across the bow to where free agency was able to come and used to sit down and talk about, put the kids on it and, and maybe read, uh, Dickens Christmas Carol. And that was part of a ritual each year. Now this is my own personal ritual each year.

[00:37:27] Mark Corbett: I read this because it's, uh, it reminds me. That we're still, as far as being able to control their own destiny, if you are a baseball player, it takes six years in, at the show, at the Major League level before you can be a free agent and choose what you want to do. This was basically the first shot across the bow, like I said, of trying to make that change.

[00:37:53] Mat Germain: It's interesting because I always, like, I grew up as in Canada and, and Canada was always a very hockey centric, place to, to grow up in and, and in our case it was Ted Lindsay, , who was the linchpin of, of, uh, I wouldn't call it free agency. What he brought in was the players union.

[00:38:10] Mat Germain: And that's what they needed in order to get free agency and all the rest of it because it empowered them to get to that level. , but it, those are really intriguing people that, that, you know, went against the grain at the, um, what they both have that is very, very, very similar. Um, is a self awareness and courage that others were unwilling to match before them.

[00:38:37] Mat Germain: Um, now in some cases, it might just be that they weren't aware or, you know, didn't have the, the, the, the issues that caused those people to get to the levels that they were, uh, were not obviously prominent in their minds enough for them to act. So there might've been others that are, were courageous enough.

[00:38:59] Mat Germain: They just didn't really. Have the motivation that these two people had, but I love I love those kinds of stories and I love the looking back on them and you can reflect on that story today and still see some of the issues that he talks about being present in the game. Which is just astounding to me at how slow moving baseball can be sometimes.

[00:39:22] Mark Corbett: Well, it's, it is sad and it's, you know, we'll have to get Lou Schiff on here again. I mean, we've talked about it before. I know he's busy until the end of the year, . Um, I had an author on here at the moment. His name escapes me about, on a book about Curt Flood.

[00:39:37] Mark Corbett: And it was interesting because during the trial at the Supreme Court level, These guys, these justices are passing notes to one another on a score that's happening at the same time with the World Series game, you know, it's like, Oh, they can't see that they need to help a person. And their interest in the game is great, and they want to know stories, they want to know everything.

[00:39:59] Mark Corbett: But it's Because of that kind of, I don't know how to say it, selfishness, selfish enjoyment of the game to the point of not recognizing the people that are in it and what they're giving you, and to give them Freedom to be able to, to have a decent labor market, so. 

[00:40:18] Mat Germain: Do you know, do you know what was his motivation from that though, before that?

[00:40:23] Mat Germain: Uh, like I know, the story that I knew, because I didn't know this story that you just mentioned. Uh, the story that I knew about Curt Flood was when he, he had that issue in Game 7 of the World Series. And then afterwards Uh, the, the Cardinals, uh, didn't want to pay his salary. 

Yeah, they, 

[00:40:40] Mat Germain: they offered him like 5, 000 when he was supposed to be making like, I don't know, a hundred thousand or something like that.

[00:40:47] Mat Germain: And so he, he had to like fight for, for that, you know, That money and and basically abstain from signing the contract for a while I don't know how long it was exactly But it became a contentious thing where I think you know those kinds of of situations Are are what fed that motivation that he was like?

[00:41:07] Mat Germain: No. No, no, this is enough Like this is craziness that's happening and it's not right. Like we're not I mean, we have, we've all seen the movies of, of, uh, eight men out and a whole bunch of other situations that happen with the owners, like owners have never been warm and cuddly and major. You know, we have a few that hand out baseballs now and stuff like that.

[00:41:29] Mat Germain: But, um, Yeah, it's amazing. Somebody should do an entire series. Like I remember in hockey, they did the series where they had all these great people or impactful people about the game. And they had this whole beautifully done series. NFL does it all the time. Major League Baseball or somebody should do one on baseball.

[00:41:55] Mat Germain: Major League Baseball and ownership, especially because the the number of stories and intricate kind of things that happen like you mentioned before the Dodgers situation with the McCourts and There's just an endless You know, numbers of ways you could go that would get people really intrigued by just how messed up and ownership of baseball teams is it's almost like a soap opera.

[00:42:20] Mat Germain: General Hospital has nothing on Major League Baseball. 

[00:42:25] Mark Corbett: Oh, gosh, man. I hate it when you hit. Hit the nail on the head with something like that. And you're so accurate and it hurts. Oh gosh. Yeah. Well, you know, we're trying to mix it all up here with the Christmas show on baseball biz on deck and we've got Scrooge, we've got a wonderful, wonderful Christmas meals and my gosh, man, you've, you've got me wanting to come up there again.

[00:42:51] Mark Corbett: I've, uh, I've enjoyed lobster so much when I was up north traveling with my job. Um, but. My gosh, the the the ability to see things and you're right about Curt Flood going back to him for a moment There was some contention about what they were willing to pay him and what they're willing to do And at that time you're basically your job was renewed each year With your team period you had to sign basically with them each year Or you weren't going to be in major league baseball, right?

[00:43:23] Mark Corbett: But they could do what they wanted with you. They could trade you. And that, you're right, that's what kind of precipitated the whole thing with, with Curt Flood. And he had a kind of a tragic life going on too. Um, I won't go into details of it. Anybody wants to find out, there's plenty there to find on Curt.

[00:43:42] Mark Corbett: But I still look at that letter as a beginning and also as a goal, because I don't think that making a, Young player play for six years before they can be a free agent. Is anything realistic? You can talk about how much they pay these people when they make, and I'll say, yeah, they're only making that much because the owners are rich enough to pay them that.

[00:44:06] Mark Corbett: But to not have the control of your destiny for six years, it's, it kind of sucks. 

[00:44:12] Mat Germain: Yeah, I think the arbitration moving, moving arbitration up makes sense to me, , you can maybe say, okay, after two seasons under your belt, and you can just basically add it up to, you know, the game. So after 324 games.

[00:44:28] Mat Germain: You are eligible after the end of that next season to be a free agent, or not a free agent, but for arbitration, sorry. And then, so basically, I think that arbitration works well in getting people's salaries up. Like, I think you're seeing it now with Vladdy Jr. and a bunch of other guys. Like, before Ohtani signed his big deal, he made, I think, 30 million.

[00:44:52] Mat Germain: 30 million. They do the arbitration process, you know, that is impactful. So basically then you can look at for 20, you know, some odd teams that would have forced a trade. Right. Uh, but the angels were just so stubborn that they weren't willing to trade them. But but I think You're right. Like they, they do need to keep refining and they have made some changes where they have certain awards for the top rookies that they're used from the beginning.

[00:45:22] Mat Germain: If they're, there's a lot of incentives that have been added over the last two or three years. Um, yeah, but I, I do want to add one thing, one last note on, on, you know, the, the player that we've been talking about, he was the first player to get a hit. In Canada. Right? So that's how I know the name originally.

[00:45:45] Mat Germain: It was, you know, at Jarry Park where the Expos were playing. And then they were the first franchise in Canada. And he had the first hit. So, yeah. That's his claim to fame in my eyes, that and what you just spoke about today. 

[00:45:59] Mark Corbett: Yeah, well, I mean it's still shaking through that's cool that you know, you're you're bringing it up with the xbox I had forgotten that I remember when I read the book that but I've forgotten it Um, i'm one of the things that brought up to mind too because you and I were talking before the show about nolan arenado In a sense, he's trying to control his destiny right now Because the team wants to go ahead and he's got a no trade Clause in his contract, which allows him some flexibility.

[00:46:33] Mark Corbett: But, um, 

[00:46:34] Mat Germain: yeah, apparently the, he, he said he only wants to go to winning clubs. So the cards, the cards got a deal together with the Astros and he said no. So what does that mean? That he doesn't think the Astros are a winning club. 

I don't know. 

[00:46:51] Mat Germain: It seems like a, uh, I don't know if it's a slap in the face at the Astros.

[00:46:56] Mat Germain: There's a contentious issue out there right now where the, I should say contentious issue. It's more of a conspiracy theory that he's holding out for the Dodgers. He really, really, really, really, really wants to play for the Dodgers. That's his Christmas wish. He wrote Santa a letter. He mailed it out in November.

[00:47:14] Mat Germain: The elf on the shelf told them that it had been sent and read and that he was not on the naughty list. So he should be getting his wish. I don't know if they've lifted up all the Deep cushions to find the coin that would be required to cover enough for the cards. Oh, they did this to the Dodgers. Need another big name.

[00:47:36] Mat Germain: Like really come on. Like, what is this? The players are starting to act like the NBA where, Oh, I want to play with this guy and I want to play with this guy. And I want to play with it. What? I'm sorry, but I just. It drives me insane. It reminds me of when you were in the schoolyard and then all these people were, you know, were kept picking their friends and they just, it 

[00:48:00] Mark Corbett: gets out.

[00:48:01] Mark Corbett: Yep. 

[00:48:01] Mat Germain: Yep. 

[00:48:03] Mark Corbett: Well, you can put the star on the top of the tree, buddy. 

[00:48:08] Mat Germain: Yeah. The star on top of the tree. Let's see what would be the star right now. And so what is the best aspect? Of baseball today. What is the star that we can wish for? 

[00:48:20] Mark Corbett: Oh, man, 

[00:48:21] Mat Germain: oh no blackouts That's my christmas wish And the madness And broadcast everywhere.

[00:48:33] Mat Germain: Just give us access to the freaking games. I don't care if there's five ads on the screen as we watch it. Give us access to baseball. 

[00:48:43] Mark Corbett: Hey, hey, and I'll put one more on top of that wish and make it through one source. 

[00:48:48] Mat Germain: Oh, man. Now you're asking too much. Mark. You've gone over the top. Santa doesn't have that much magic in his hat.

[00:48:56] Mark Corbett: Oh gosh. 

[00:49:00] Mat Germain: Well, I hope you're right. I really do hope somebody steps up and 

[00:49:05] Mark Corbett: money to make that happen. Oh gosh. Well, I'll tell you what bad. Well, I'm looking forward to Christmas sounds like you had good times playing with your family should be a lot of fun. 

[00:49:15] Mat Germain: Absolutely should be a good time. I think the stockings are going to be full.

[00:49:19] Mat Germain: I know there's a lot of unfortunate people out there and that, you know, I hope that everybody finds some solace or someplace safe and warm to go to get good meals. And, uh, I, uh, I know this this time of year is hard. Like, I know it. I'll just share it a little bit. My first seven years in the military, I spent away from home when it came to, uh, To Christmas and that was the hardest time of the year to be honest like yeah, you get a phone call home You get this you get that It's not the same and it does hurt a little bit more when you're not around family and everything else Some people don't have a family to be around And so one of the things that I learned, you know through the first two years Few years was to not be shy about saying that you're going to be alone.

[00:50:05] Mat Germain: And more than likely, somebody will open their door to you, uh, so that you do get an opportunity to be around others. Uh, I had situations even as far as somebody inviting us to just stay overnight, Christmas Eve and, uh, you know, be there when they open presents and they have the meal there with them.

[00:50:23] Mat Germain: Yeah, the idea, and I was with a roommate at the time, so both of us went over and it just ended up being like we were, uh, Two added strangers who brought food To the christmas morning so Uh, both of us were single couldn't be with our families because we were ready duty ship at the time and uh, yeah, so All i'm saying is is if you're listening and you're out there and you you Want to keep a good eye out for those that need a little bit more.

[00:50:50] Mat Germain: Uh, More care than that. You may otherwise notice, uh, you know this time of year 

[00:50:58] Mark Corbett: Well, thank you, man. I think it's, that's well worth saying. Thank you for sharing that too. And thank you and all the others for your service. Uh, it's, it means a lot to all of us and I don't think we always think about it, but thank you and I'm so happy for you and your family and for this Christmas.

[00:51:14] Mark Corbett: And I. I, it is a, it is a time of year I cherish. So thank you very much for joining us here today on BaseballBiz On Deck for this special Christmas edition. And we'll go out with a little bit of jingling there again, jingle bells, and hope all of you have a wonderful, wonderful holiday. We look forward to talking to you guys again, real soon.

[00:51:40] Mat Germain: Merry Christmas. Oh, 

[00:51:42] Mat Germain: oh, 

oh.