Boston Red Sox Spring Training wi/ Nat Gordo from Play Tessie

Boston Red Sox - A New Energy in 2024

The dramatic shift in attitude and confidence

Alex Cora's perspective: last year, they had to talk up their chances; this year, the roster speaks for itself.

Questions around third base and second base positions.

Potential role of Alex Bregman, Kristian Campbell, Vaughn Grissom, and David Hamilton.

Rafael Devers' massive contract and his possible shift to DH.

The impact of Trevor Story's limited availability over the past few years.

Could Alex Bregman handle shortstop if necessary?

Depth options: Marcelo Mayer, Rafael, and Kristian Campbell provide sKtability.

Improved roster depth compared to recent years.

The ability to sustain a winning season in 2025, surpassing Yankees and Orioles.

Worcester's minor league roster stacked with MLB-ready talent.

Red Sox projected to have one of the strongest AL rotations.

Current five-man rotation: Garrett Crochet, Tanner Houck, Brayan Bello, Walker Buehler, Lucas Giolito.

Kutter Crawford’s injury status 

Newly acquired Quinn Priester’s potential role in the rotation.

Depth beyond the starting five: Richard Fitz, Cooper Criswell, and others.

Comparing Red Sox to Other AL East Teams

The Yankees: Strength in their top-tier stars like Gerrit Cole and Aaron Judge.

The Red Sox’s approach: winning through depth rather than relying on superstars.

Predictions for AL East competitiveness—Red Sox poised to be a tougher challenge for the Rays.

Potential Trade & Free Agent Moves

Could the Red Sox make a move for Dylan Cease?

Flexibility to add at the trade deadline, given payroll under $200M.

How the Red Sox’s depth could be the key to their success.

The importance of rotational flexibility and the impact of potential injuries.

How Boston’s depth could push them into the playoff picture.

Vaughn Grissom, the key piece of the Chris Sale trade

Determined to compete for the second base job, Grissom is not being tested at other positions

Extension Talks & Payroll Considerations

Boston ownership faces scrutiny over financial allocations amid concerns about investing in the team.

Brayan Bello emerges as the top extension priority.

Bello’s past reluctance to pitch without an extension adds urgency to negotiations.

Roman Anthony, Ceddanne Rafaela, and Marcelo Mayer are also potential extension candidates.

 Evaluating Brayan Bello's Future Contract

Red Sox must balance risk given Bello’s limited innings and development trajectory.

Blue Jays fail to lock in Vladimir Guerrero Jr., 

Toronto carries the 5th highest payroll (~$233M) 

Red Sox, boast the top-rated farm system

A comparison to the Red Sox extending Rafael Devers for 10 years, $324M shows Toronto’s missed opportunity.

Lack of depth and roster mismanagement hinder long-term success.

Toronto’s aggressive contract offers ($700Mf+ for Shohei Ohtani & Juan Soto).

Why Vladimir Guerrero Jr. might feel overlooked

Comparisons to Fernando Tatis Jr.’s extension

Mookie Betts Trade & Red Sox Rebuilding Strategy

Roman Anthony’s rise relates to Betts' departure.

The adaptability of Mookie Betts

Aroldis Chapman Signing with the Red Sox

 AL East & Playoff Contenders

Yankees' potential despite losing Juan Soto.

Yankees acquisitions: Cody Bellinger, Paul Goldschmidt, Jazz Chisholm.

Tampa Bay Rays’ and Baltimore Orioles’ depth as an advantage.

Kansas City Royals as a surprise AL contender

Follow Mat on Blue Sky at https://bsky.app/profile/matgermain.bsky.social, Mark on Blue Sky at https://bsky.app/profile/baseballbizondeck.bsky.social
Special thanks to XTaKeRuX for the music “Rocking Forward

Transcript

Red Sox 279 Nat Gordo - Spring Training

[00:00:00] Mark Corbett: Welcome to BaseballBiz On Deck. I am Mark Corbett host, and with me today, of course, is Matt Germain. But we have a very special guest, a man from up north, another member of the AL East, and somebody whose team ought to be looking pretty hot this year. We're talking Mr. Nat Gordo from the podcast Play Tessie.

[00:00:19] Mark Corbett: How you doing today, buddy?

[00:00:20] Nat Gordo: Good, fellas. How's it going? Thanks for having me. 

[00:00:23] Mark Corbett: It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. Matt and I were talking before you got on here and looking last year we had some projections of who would do what and of course being Tampa Bay Rays fans, kind of, I kinda was thinking, you know, Orioles and Rays and that didn't work out.

[00:00:41] Mark Corbett: See, well, , but you guys, I mean, uh, you, you look at the AL East, you guys at least broke even. 

[00:00:48] Nat Gordo: Yeah, I mean if you, you compare last year to this year, just the vibe is just, it's a complete 180 with, with the fan base, with, with the way the, the team talks about themselves. Like you have Alex Cora talking about how last year they, they had to be very loud about how they think they have a chance, but this year it, they, the roster speaks for itself and they can just kind of put their heads down and get to work.

[00:01:10] Nat Gordo: And I think the, the fan base is happy to let it happen. 

[00:01:14] Mark Corbett: Well look at who you have. I mean, my goodness, man, I was going down a list as far as payroll. Um, I do have to tell you stop for a second. I, as I was preparing for today, I had Abbot and Costello popping into my head. You know, who's on first? What's on second, third?

[00:01:33] Mark Corbett: I don't know. Do you know who's gonna be on third? 

[00:01:37] Nat Gordo: I don't, I don't think anybody knows. But if you, if you read the tea leaves a little bit. I mean, Alex Bregman has been there for a week and a half or so at this point, and he's, he's worked at second base primarily in maybe one of those days. So maybe it tips their hand a little bit as to what they're thinking.

[00:01:57] Nat Gordo: I, I know that they're very excited about Kristian  Campbell and, and Von Grissom came into camp, uh, looking Jacked, and David Hamilton looks like he's in the best shape of his life. So they've got three. Prime candidates for second base there, uh, that they're exci where they're excited about all three.

[00:02:14] Nat Gordo: And if they wanna fit any of those guys into the lineup, the way to do it would be one of them at second Bregman at third. And even though he is not gonna want to do it, Des would be at dh. And then that would just kind of put Maitake oida either in left field or in limbo. 

[00:02:32] Mark Corbett: And correct me if I'm wrong, but this endeavor's the highest paid Red Sox there is right now.

[00:02:38] Nat Gordo: Uh, maybe not like this year. Bregman will be paid more. Well, I guess there's some deferred money, but he is the highest paid Red Sox player of all time, biggest contract they've ever handed out and fresh into that deal too. I think this is only year two of a decade long deal. So. 

[00:02:57] Mark Corbett: Yeah, I think it's 27 mil.

[00:02:58] Mark Corbett: And I thought, hmm, you know, and you have to have a certain approach and attitude as a player if you're, you're going to be able to command that much money. And I, I heard a little bit, maybe I'll uncertain it later, of the, uh, the interview with him, you know, obviously he has his interpreter, but when they got to, uh, the part is, uh, if he would, he DH and Des didn't wait for the translator.

[00:03:21] Mark Corbett: He just looked over and said, no, very nice and crisp. Okay. Yeah, I, 

[00:03:27] Mat Germain: I just want to, I wanna pause it here. Okay. Because this is where, you know, we make a lot of predictions for the season. We do a lot of, you know, oh, if everything goes well, nobody gets hurt. Nobody gets angry, nobody. How many games has Trevor's story played in the last two years?

[00:03:44] Nat Gordo: You know, I know the number of of games played since he got here, which I believe is three years. He's played 163 games in his three years as a red sock. Okay, 

[00:03:54] Mat Germain: so my, my, my point with that would be there's a greater chance that the Red Sox need a, a new shortstop at some point. My question is that could Alex Bregman handle shortstop?

[00:04:06] Mat Germain: Mm-hmm. If he, if he needed to, in which case you keep Rafael Devs at third, and then you have, you know, the other options that you mentioned before at Kristian  Campbell, you have Marcello Meyer who could also probably handle second base if needed. You have other audits. Well, sorry about that guys. As well as, uh, Raphael, uh, Raphael, which I really like.

[00:04:25] Mat Germain: Like I, I've told Mark before, um, he's one of my favorite kind of Red Sox toolsy guys that can move around all over the place and just be elite wherever he goes. Um, at least, you know, play to a high level on the field. Um, so. The the scenarios. My point would be the scenarios are kind of endless in terms of how it could shake out.

[00:04:45] Mat Germain: What I do know is nobody is going to question Alex Core if he makes the decision. I don't see Rafael Devs blowing up and saying, I'm not playing today because they put me at first base, or they put me at dh. I think he's earned enough respect. Yeah. With those players and with Rafael endeavors that he will, he will get it sorted out and guys will probably move around a little bit as needed.

[00:05:07] Mat Germain: As Trevor Story and others get hurt and move around. But what my point that I've made with Mark before is the Red Sox for the first time, I think in, in and of quite a few years, have that second and third layer of players that they're able to call up on. And that's why I have more faith in them sustaining a winner in 2025.

[00:05:28] Mat Germain: Then the Yankees and Orioles. And what are your thoughts on that? 

[00:05:32] Nat Gordo: Yeah, I, I, I think. You're, you mentioned, you know, Alex core and the respect that he commands. If you talk to people that are down there in Fort Myers, ask anyone there, and they will tell you that the whole devs story is a nothing burger because you're right.

[00:05:47] Nat Gordo: Like he's not, he's not going to, you know, throw a tantrum and request a trade. He's, he's not gonna refuse to play if, if they tell him he's gonna dh. He won't like it, but you know what? He'll do it. And, and if he does dh, that doesn't mean that, that he's going to hang up the glove forever. And he's, he's gonna be David Ortiz.

[00:06:06] Nat Gordo: Like, no. Like he'll fight his way into the field. Uh, you brought up a scenario like if Trevor Story goes down again. Yeah. Like my thought would be Alex Bregman, depending on how long term. Right. A potential Trevor Story injury would be in this case, like, I don't think Alex Bregman, I don't think you want him playing shortstop at age 31, you know, for the first time in his major league career for like a full season.

[00:06:27] Nat Gordo: But can he fill in now and then, yeah. So in those situations, yeah, devs could play third if, even if, even if he's your DH on opening day. , but longer term. Like, I don't think Marcelo Meyer is ready opening day. He, he doesn't have a, a single AAA at bat to this point. But like, if, if story makes it through the first half of the year and, and suffers an injury in the second half, then you've got depth, you got Marcelo Meyer there.

[00:06:51] Nat Gordo: Uh, but I agree the, the Red Sox depth this year and, and in every phase of the, of the team too, it's, it's not just the offense, it's the rotation, uh, it's the bullpen. They've got. Depth in all three sort of areas of the game that they, I don't like. Even some of the best Red Sox teams that we've seen in, in my lifetime, they've won four championships and I don't, I think that this might be the deepest Red Sox team I've seen.

[00:07:16] Nat Gordo: Not necessarily the best, but, but in terms of just the depth that they have, uh, at the, on the bench in the minor leagues. Like they, they're gonna have a very talented team in Worcester this year that's ready to send guys up when needed. 

[00:07:28] Mat Germain: And this, the, the reason I brought up the Bregman move to shortstop is because I've seen it with the raids when he needed, uh, a shortstop for a bit, they brought, uh, Joey Wendell over.

[00:07:37] Mat Germain: And Joey Wendell kind of transitioned very easily because he was such a strong third baseman to that position. You didn't want him there every day for a long period of time, but he was, he was good there. And, and I see Alex Bregman as a similar defender as Joey Wendell, uh, at third base. So I think he could handle it if he had to.

[00:07:55] Mat Germain: But you're right, like in terms of the. The position that the Red Sox have set themselves up in extremely strong relieving, really strong pitching. I still think they might be a player for Dell and cce if they can hand, if they can work something out at some point. I don't know if it happens or not, but they, the other part is they're still below 200 million spent, so they can add at the deadline as well if something falls through and they need to add that extra piece.

[00:08:22] Mat Germain: So I think this is definitely a year. Like I told Mark, like I, I see. The Rays having a tougher time beating the Red Sox, although they beat them today than they'll Yeah. Beating the Yankees and, uh, and Orioles. 

[00:08:36] Nat Gordo: Yeah. I mean, it's gonna, it's gonna be a different, like the Red Sox and Yankees are just such different kind of opponents.

[00:08:42] Nat Gordo: 'cause the Yankees are gonna try to beat you with, with their big, you know, front of the rotation guys in Colin Freed and they've got the big meat in the middle of the order and judge like. The Red Sox are gonna try to beat you to death with depth. And, you know, not, that's not to say that they don't have stars like they, Garrett crochet is gonna be a ion candidate.

[00:08:59] Nat Gordo: Devs gets MVP votes every year. You, you'd hope that Bregman and Duran are in that class too, like they've got guys. But I, I like to think that the Red Sox, if they make the playoffs this year, it's gonna be because. They limit the amount of days because every team has those days where it's like, oh my God.

[00:09:17] Nat Gordo: It's like the day after a double header and multiple guys went down and we just like, we have to piece this lineup together. Uh, but even those lineups for the socks are gonna be filled with major league caliber players, which is not something that most teams can say. So I, I like to think that if they're gonna get into the upper eighties or even the nineties and wins this year, that those games are gonna be a big part of that.

[00:09:39] Nat Gordo: Right. 

[00:09:40] Mark Corbett: Nat, I can tell you that Matt and I have talked in the past about depth and certainly as he, me had mentioned certainly with Boston and the Red Sox. Um, Matt, we, when we were speaking in the past, we talked about a six man rotation, and that's something that it looks like Nat, when, when, uh, we're talking with the Red Sox, you've got that depth now, and I mean, and.

[00:10:07] Mark Corbett: I love it. I wish every team was able to put together that, that strong of a, not to want you, just the nine guys out there, but everybody else behind as well. And you, we've got a good one. What do you feel about that rotation? Six man rotation I. 

[00:10:22] Nat Gordo: Well, you know, six man rotation. It's always, it's always nice in theory, but it never al, it never ends up working out that way.

[00:10:28] Nat Gordo: And you're already kind of seeing that with the Red Sox. Uh, cutter Crawford doesn't look like he's gonna be ready for opening day, and it might be a semi extended absence. Like, we'll see. He's got an, his knee's been barking. It's, it's an injury from last year that kind of popped back up right as he was, uh, getting to camp.

[00:10:44] Nat Gordo: But. I mean, you got crochet, you got how both of them were all stars last year. Yeah. Uh, you're gonna, you're gonna have Brian Bao, who they're super high on, just extended, uh, gave him a lot of money for what, not what he's done, but what they think he will do. Uh, you've got Walker Ueler and Lucas Giolito, both, you know, Cy Young candidates in the past.

[00:11:03] Nat Gordo: And that's five guys right there. Uh, when Cutter Crawford gets healthy. We will see if all five of those guys are healthy. Brian Bao is a little bit behind schedule two and, and not a guarantee to, to make the opening day roster, but you know, they just traded for, for a kid. Qui Quinn Priester. Last year they traded, uh, Nick York, one of their former first round picks back in 2020 for him.

[00:11:23] Nat Gordo: Uh, they feel really good about what he's done. He's put on weight, he's added velocity. They're really excited about him. Uh, they've got Richard Fitz and Cooper Criswell, his depth. So again, it's like. It, it, I, I, I hesitate to say that they're the best rotation in the al just because I, I, I find it impossible to see anyone surpass the Mariners, but FanGraphs has them, uh, with the highest projected F four in the American League this year.

[00:11:47] Nat Gordo: And I think a big part of that is, is the depth that they have guys go down and. You feel good about the guys who can step in, which, I mean last, even just as recently as last year, like someone would go down and it would, bre would be Brad Keller comes in and starts a game. Josh Winkowski comes in and starts a game and he's not stretched out.

[00:12:04] Nat Gordo: So it's really only three innings. You're not gonna see too many bullpen games this year. You're not gonna see too many outings with, with AAA pitchers who either aren't ready, uh, to make their big league debuts, yet being forced to, or, or. Quadruple a players who shouldn't be starting games for the Boston Red Sox.

[00:12:22] Nat Gordo: Anyway, uh, I think the rotation's gonna be maybe this team's biggest strength this year, but. That that doesn't, that's not to say that things don't have to go right. Like you're looking at two guys in Buhler and Alito that mm-hmm. Have been all stars in the past. But if you go based off of the most recent data Buhler had, you know, the, even though he closed out the World Series, it was the worst year of his career last year.

[00:12:43] Nat Gordo: Right. Uh, Lucas Alito coming off the Tommy or the, the, not the non Tommy John, Tommy John thing. Um, and the second half of the year before that. He wasn't very good. So these guys are obviously, you know, running through the Red Sox program. The Red Sox feel good about what they're doing with them, but from an outside perspective, it's like you gotta see it right?

[00:13:05] Mat Germain: So the Patrick Sandoval is another one that you guys brought in who will be on the 60, uh, day IL for the start of the season, but you can envision him come back June, July-ish. Um, you know, that's a pretty good ace in the hole to have in the back. I'm not saying he's an ace, but a two to three F four pitcher.

[00:13:23] Mat Germain: If, uh, Lucas Giolito needs a breath. You know, midseason, they can, uh, they can actually hold them back, but what are your thoughts on the other huge piece that they may be adding this year on Roman Anthony, and who would you say is the, the surprise of the spring so far? 

[00:13:41] Nat Gordo: Well, they're super excited about the big three and, and Jeff Passin dropped an article and you can today, and you can see not just how excited that the Red Sox are about those guys, but about how excited the industry as a whole is.

[00:13:56] Nat Gordo: About them. Uh, Roman Anthony, like consensus, top position player, prospect in the game. He's been getting a, a lot of, all three of them have been playing a lot this spring and it's, it's been fun to see it. Uh, just because like most spring trainings, it's like, I. The starters play four innings and then they're down.

[00:14:13] Nat Gordo: And then a bunch of guys that you've never really heard of come in and it's like, all right, I can turn the game off in the fifth or sixth inning, but with the, with the socks this spring, it's like, yeah, the starters are in, but you've got three of the top 10 to 15 prospects in baseball playing the second half of those games.

[00:14:28] Nat Gordo: So it, it's, it's been fun. They're, they're excited to see what they do this year. I don't know that Roman is gonna make the opening day roster though, though. If you ask him, he would, he will tell you, uh, that is his intention is to make the opening day roster. He has a goal and he, he wants to make it, uh, he doesn't want more time in aaa, but obviously if, if that's what happens, he'll do it.

[00:14:50] Nat Gordo: And, you know, he's a really good, really mature kid, uh, for a 20-year-old. You, you talk to people there and they say he's one of the most mature 20 year olds that they've ever talked to, but. I think maybe the one that gets even more hype is Kristian  Campbell right now, just because of the success story that he is drafted, uh, just a couple years ago in the fourth round as a comp pick, and really just didn't, he didn't hit home runs because he didn't elevate the ball.

[00:15:18] Nat Gordo: He didn't hit the ball in the air. And the Red Sox have bat speed programs. They have launching. They have, they have programs for, for everything you can think of with, with their bats and, and. Kristian  Campbell, they're hoping is gonna be one of the first major success stories of a guy that was not a highly touted prospect that, or in the draft that they have now turned into a potential or they feel a potential star.

[00:15:44] Nat Gordo: So I. Uh, when you go to camp tho those three, even though they're like, people are excited about the big league roster, the big league team this year, those three command a ton of the conversation down there just because of, I mean, how often do you get three offensive prospects in the top 15 that are all expected to break or make their major league debuts, you know, in the same season?

[00:16:07] Nat Gordo: Like it's, it's exciting. 

[00:16:09] Mat Germain: Right. And I, I think that's why I see the, the Red Sox moving somebody like maybe Tristan Casas or somebody else along with prospects to try to get somebody like Dylan Cs, because I think they do like him so much. They want him in the lineup. They want Kristian  Campbell to push, uh, Alex Bregman.

[00:16:27] Mat Germain: I third put Rafael Devers at first. And then you have your infield set in a way that actually. You know, it's pretty dominant when you look at it. If they perform to the levels, they can do, so it's, it's really, you're, you're right, like the rays have an extremely, uh, hyped top five prospects, but I don't think they're, they combined at the same level as those top three for the Red Sox are.

[00:16:51] Mat Germain: Uh, they're just a little bit behind, but that's with Junior Canero, you know, graduated. So, 

[00:16:56] Nat Gordo: graduated. Yeah. 

[00:16:57] Mat Germain: So, so I think, you know, the, the rays right now have a lot of hype going on about Curtis Mead. He's coming to camp, he's liking it. He looks great. He's looked like a completely changed person. He took the 24 season to heart, made the changes he needed to.

[00:17:13] Mat Germain: Who's in the Red Sox camp that has done that kind of thing for you guys? 

[00:17:17] Nat Gordo: Hmm, that's a good question. You ask. Alex Cora, who he, who has stuck out to him at camp. And the two guys that, that he has brought up. I brought up Quinn Priester before he mentioned him by name, and he mentioned Garrett Whitlock, who has kind of been a forgotten man.

[00:17:38] Nat Gordo: Yeah. With the Red Sox, just because, I mean, they, they've tried the last few years to make him a starter, uh. Early on last season, had to get that internal brace procedure in his elbow lost for the season. Uh, he looks like he's on track right now and they'll pitch him outta the bullpen. So we, they're, they're not gonna, uh, try with the starter roll again, which I think is fine considering how much depth they've gotten, the rotation and their need for arms in the bullpen.

[00:18:03] Nat Gordo: But he's throwing harder than he has since he was elite in 2021. They like, they're really excited. They're taking it slow with him as they, as they should, coming off the injury, but, but they're really excited about him and, and the potential that he has outta the bullpen this year. 

[00:18:20] Mat Germain: I always saw him similar to Drew Rasmuson, like the, all the potential in the world to be a, like a really awesome starter, but for some reason the physicality of it just isn't working out.

[00:18:31] Mat Germain: Uh, I know Andrew Miller was one that was switched over from, uh. From starter to reliever and became a two inning guy. And I think both Rasmussen and Whitlock would fit in that mold that you're better off using 'em as two innings guys or, or sometimes three innings if you need it. Um, and they'd be dominant in that role.

[00:18:48] Mat Germain: So I don't know what the rays are gonna do with Rasmuson if they're gonna get 'em starting, but I just thought, you know, every camp has that guy that kind of. Put in the major work in the off season, then you can tell as soon as they walk on that field, you're like, whoa, that guy has changed. Yeah. So it's, it's always nice to get those stories and, and that gets people peeking over the fence at the, at spring training and at the team a little bit closer.

[00:19:13] Nat Gordo: Yeah. It's always, it's always interesting to see which guys coming into camp, best shape of their life. Guys, the other one in terms of just like who came into camp. Looking like a different human was Von Grissom because obviously a huge piece of, well, the only piece of the Chris Sail trade last year, uh, comes over and they had him playing winter ball in Puerto Rico and he just, he didn't have, I, I don't know that what he, what he'll tell you is that he didn't have like a gym that he, the, the gym com accommodations there just weren't up to his standard and he lost weight and then he got sick a couple of times, got hurt a couple of times and just.

[00:19:51] Nat Gordo: His season last year was lost. It took a toll on him mentally, but he reset in the off season. He looks ginormous coming into camp this spring and, and. When people say that Bregman should play, second endeavor should play third, or when people say that Campbell should break campus, the second baseman, he, he says not so fast because he, he is fully intent on competing for that second base job.

[00:20:12] Nat Gordo: They haven't had him taking fly balls in the corner, outfield spots. They haven't had him working at first base at all yet. Like they're giving him a legitimate chance to win that second base job because of the work he's put in this off season. Wow. So I know that, that he's really excited about what, what he thinks he can do.

[00:20:27] Nat Gordo: He's a really confident guy right now. Um, and I, I, I, it's good to see the team giving him that shot 

[00:20:34] Mat Germain: in, in terms of the, the money. I, I know the, the ownership in, in Boston has gotten a lot of flack. They think all their money is being poured into Liverpool and, and other things. Um, so. What, is there any outcry for extensions for big signings?

[00:20:51] Mat Germain: Like I know Gary Crochet only has a, a little bit of amount of time left. Uh, Jaron Duran could probably use an extension and some, you know, just to solidify that core piece that you guys would be able to bank on going forward, knowing what the cost is gonna be. So who's getting the most kind of, uh, noise when it comes to extensions and signings?

[00:21:12] Nat Gordo: The answer to that one is definitely Garrett Crochet. They, they traded for him this off season, two years of control remaining. But the reason that it, that it's getting that much buzz is, you know, you could point to last trade deadline where he basically told the Chicago White Sox like, I'm not going to pitch in the postseason for a team that you trade me to unless I'm extended.

[00:21:33] Nat Gordo: And he's expressed a willingness to, to talk about extensions with the Red Sox, and it remains to be seen if those conversations have taken place this spring yet, I would assume they have, but. We haven't heard about any progress or resolution. Uh, I think that there's a, a legitimate chance that something there gets done.

[00:21:52] Nat Gordo: I think fans would be pretty disappointed at this point if it, if it doesn't, uh, that you do not want to trade the package that they traded for. Gere crochet. Just to see him walk out the door in a couple years. Yeah, he is, he is 25 years old, meaning he'd be a, a free agent at age 27. And you guys saw this off season with Soto.

[00:22:13] Nat Gordo: These, these guys who hit free agency young, and maybe Soto's not the best example, but just because of how accomplished he is as well. But like, if you're a high level player and you're young and you're a free agent, you're gonna get paid. So the Red Sox really should extend themselves and make sure that they get that done.

[00:22:31] Nat Gordo: And then outside of crochet, I would say the next most buzz might be on the prospects like Roman, Anthony, uh, Kristian  Campbell, both of those guys. And, and we haven't heard as much about Marcello because when, when Roman and Campbell talked about it, it was at the Red Sox fan fest and, and Meyer was sick and couldn't attend.

[00:22:50] Nat Gordo: But Kristian  Campbell in particular. Expressed a, a legitimate willingness to sign an extension if, if they wanted to approach him about it. And reports are that they did plan on approaching the kid, all three of the kids, about potential extensions. So yeah, something like that may not come together for any of these guys until the end of the spring.

[00:23:11] Nat Gordo: Like we'll see. Uh, BEOS extension last year was with maybe not even a week before the season, and then they extended Sid on Rafaella. A week or two into the season. So if you follow that, if you follow those molds again, like yeah, maybe something comes together closer to the season for someone. But crochet would definitely, I think, be their number one priority.

[00:23:33] Nat Gordo: He's certainly the, the guy that the fans wanna see extended the most, so keep an eye on him. 

[00:23:40] Mat Germain: So the, the Yankees signed at 29 years old Jar Cole for nine years and 324 million. Yeah. If, if, if Garrett Crochet has. Uh, you will never have the track record that Jerich Cole had. To that point, he will have at least, you know, two seasons, let's say maybe two and a half by the time he would sign an extension.

[00:24:00] Mat Germain: So if he's going to be 27 though, the question to me is more about the length. Like what length do you give somebody that hasn't exactly had the, the, the track record that you would want lengthwise, like he's not a 225 inning. Uh, a year pitcher. So do you give him more than seven years? Do you go to eight?

[00:24:21] Mat Germain: Will other teams go to eight? Like to what point is he going to force the Red Sox hand? 'cause he knows the same thing you just said. He knows they gave up a huge package and that they and his agent's gonna whisper that in his ear the whole time. He will be demanding things that the Red Sox are going to be in a very uncomfortable place, so they're going to have to be comfortable with losing him for two years or a year and a half, whatever it may be, at some point within that deal.

[00:24:49] Mat Germain: So in that case, do you bank on the fact that he'd be able to rebound effectively and then just call it a day and make it an eight year deal? Deal or a nine year deal? 

[00:24:59] Nat Gordo: You know, I, I think if you, if you put an eight or a nine year deal on the table. For the Red Sox I actually like today. Right. I think it would be pretty, they'd be pretty comfortable with it just because if you, if you think about an eight year deal, he is 25, that, that doesn't even take you to age 34.

[00:25:16] Nat Gordo: The type of extension I think would come together if they're able to get it done just because of how young he is. It's, it's almost like one of these ones that, that guys sign when, when they're like rookies or second year guys, because if you sign crochet. To, let's say a four year deal that starts at the end of these two years that would take him until he's aged 31 or 32, and he has a chance to then hit the market again there and, you know, cash in even bigger at that point.

[00:25:48] Nat Gordo: It's like he, he could have the best of both worlds where you get the guaranteed money today, uh, to, to have generational life changing wealth for your family for generations to come, but you also don't. Fully limit yourself because yeah, you have a chance to, while you're still in your prime, hit the open market and have 30 teams bid for you, which is when you can truly cash in at your max.

[00:26:11] Nat Gordo: But you know, if he doesn't sign an extension, he's not making very much money this year. Yeah. Uh, so you run the risk of, of getting hurt again. He's been hurt in the past. I, I really, the reason I think people just expect this thing to get done is because it just makes so much sense. For both parties more so than than other guys in the league, just because of his injury history, 

[00:26:34] Mark Corbett: you know?

[00:26:36] Mark Corbett: I'm gonna jump to another team here for a moment, just because I couldn't believe they didn't get something done. And that is the Blue Jays with Vladimir Guerrero Jr. It's like, come on. And I, I love that this player, and we're gonna talk with the guy from, uh, the Blue Jay's here soon Anyway, but I, I look at that and I'm thinking my.

[00:26:59] Mark Corbett: Gosh, you know, he can pick from 28 other teams because we know it's not gonna be the Yankees, um, that, that you're not taking care of this man now. And if you look at what they have for a, a budget, the Toronto is spending the fifth largest payroll with two over see, almost $233 million. And they're not going to take care of that.

[00:27:21] Mark Corbett: But not that, not to wanna say with the, the payroll with them, but the thing of it is. I don't know where they are when it comes to farm systems, but I know the Red Sox as far as having some depth. You guys have some, I think you guys came in as number one on baseball America recently as far as your farm system.

[00:27:40] Nat Gordo: Yeah. And, and the Blue Jays are, are on the other end of that. They're like, generally consider a bottom five. The Blue Jays messed this up in my opinion, years ago. 'cause like at this point. This off season after, after he, after Vlad saw what, what happened with Juan Soto and the amount of money that he got, like how could you not just play out the last year, try to crush it like he knows he can.

[00:28:04] Nat Gordo: Yeah. And then hit the market and have, I mean, Pete a Lonzo's on a one year deal, you'll have the Mets in on him. You'll have the Yankees in on him. Even though like I, I. I agree, just based off of his previous comments. Maybe that's not his, his preferred destination, but it's good to have him there. Uh, the Red Sox, uh, have been reported to maybe have interest there.

[00:28:23] Nat Gordo: I certainly hope they would. So, I mean, if you can get those three teams in on you as a free agent, I just, I think you'd be crazy to sign an extension. I, I think that's why it didn't get done. Yeah, I think he probably put a number on the table that. That was maybe the number he's hoping to get in free agency once he's there.

[00:28:40] Nat Gordo: And obviously the Blue Jays weren't gonna meet that bidding against themselves. And yeah, so it looks like he'll be a free agent. 

[00:28:46] Mat Germain: I've always said the Blue Jays messed up the Vladi Guerrero Jr. Thing when they let Alex and Ouo walk. Yeah. When that happened, they lost their way and the front office they have now just has no clue how to build depth through their system and roster at the same time and, and how to balance everything.

[00:29:05] Mat Germain: They're completely sold on one vision. I don't know who's selling it to them, but Vlady Guerrero Jr. I'll just compare it. Okay, so the Red Sox. With a smaller revenue stream signed, Rafael Devs, a respectful contract, 10 years, 324 million. The, the js, like the, in terms of physicality and, and like ability. You could compare the two really long term, because Rael devs isn't gonna stay at third base forever.

[00:29:32] Mat Germain: He is at some point gonna become either a first baseman or dh. So you can kind of look at the bats alone. They're very similar. Like they're, they're powerful impact bats that can go up there and hit against all the best pitching, you know, regular season playoffs, they'll carry your lineup. They'll do what they need to do.

[00:29:49] Mat Germain: So my point is, why are the Blue Jays so disrespectful when it comes to, you know, looking at. Vladi Guerrero as a superstar, instead of saying, we're betting on you, and whoever comes up behind you will know that you're there and we're able to sign other players now because we brought you in. Like imagine the Red Sox in the same stream.

[00:30:11] Mat Germain: Would if they hadn't signed Rael devs, would Alex Bregman have been as quick to jump in? 

[00:30:18] Nat Gordo: I don't know. Well, the, the crazy thing with, with how the Blue Jays have operated to me is just they offered 700 Toho. Hey. They offered at, at at least close to 700, if not more than 700 to Juan Soto. And, you know, Vladi probably looks at Juan Soto and says like, that's, that's a good comp for me.

[00:30:37] Nat Gordo: Like Soto, I get he plays corner outfield, but you know, on a 14 year deal, Soto's probably gonna be a DH for half of it. Yeah. Vladi on a, on a long-term deal, probably gonna play first base for half of it, DH for the second half of it. So. Yeah, I get why he'd be offended that they seem to be willing to pay that kind of money for the most premier free agents out there.

[00:30:59] Nat Gordo: But when it comes to, you know, taking care of your own, like why, why, why am I not getting that? So I, I, I get why you didn't sign anything. I think, you know, they, I, I struggle with to say that they've mishandled it now because I bet that number was so high. But I think they mishandled it earlier on because they've had multiple chances, multiple years to extend Vlad.

[00:31:20] Nat Gordo: And, you know, you look back, I, I think it was Ken Rosenthal compared it to when the Padres extended Tatis. Mm-hmm. And it's like if you'd given Vlad something like that at that time. Yeah. He, he signs pen to paper and they didn't do it. And they should have, because they've got more money than God. 

[00:31:37] Mark Corbett: Well, yeah.

[00:31:38] Mark Corbett: What, what did I say? They are, uh, fifth in the, yeah, fifth largest payroll. 232.8 million per sport track. Wow. Uh, man, I tell you what, it's, it amazes me in the game. And, you know, you mentioned Anthropos, uh, Matt, about as far as general managers and what they can do for a team and that what other ones can do to virtually destroy them.

[00:31:58] Mark Corbett: Um, how do you feel about your general manager right down 

[00:32:01] Nat Gordo: that. You know, we still gotta wait and see just how it all comes together. Because with general managers, like Heime Bloom was here for a few years, three or four, five years. What is, it Doesn't matter. Like you didn't see the, the, they didn't, they ha they still haven't really reaped the rewards of his labor yet.

[00:32:24] Nat Gordo: And you're, you're about to see it when, when the kids, the big three, uh, all high and bloom draft picks come up with breslow. We'll learn a little bit sooner just because he spent some more money. He's made some more decisive trades. Like how the 2025 team performs, like, yes, that's a lot of, that's gonna be previous regimes work, but you're gonna see it like some of the top players on this year's team.

[00:32:48] Nat Gordo: If, if all goes right, we'll be guys that Craig Breslow acquired. Uh, I think. SOX fans are, are happy that he's been more decisive, that he's been willing to get uncomfortable both with trades and with money. But in the end, like if you ask them how he's done, if you ask people in the front office how, how they think they're doing, what they'll tell you is, we haven't won yet.

[00:33:08] Nat Gordo: So until we do, we can't say that we are doing anything right. So we'll see. We'll see how it plays out this year. 

[00:33:15] Mat Germain: That's the good, the good answer. And I think, you know, the. The, the way that you can spin positivity in Boston this year just goes through layers and layers and layers. Give you an example. If Mookie bets was still in Boston, Roman Anthony would, would be blocked.

[00:33:31] Mat Germain: So you can spin it as, oh, well we don't have to worry about that right now. He's got a straight line up into the roster 

[00:33:39] Nat Gordo: or, or with Mookie Mookie's. So good. You just move him to second base. Like he'll, he'll do anything. Oh yeah. He's crazy. One of a kind. He 

[00:33:46] Mat Germain: deplete and catch if he has to, I think. 

[00:33:47] Nat Gordo: Yeah. 

[00:33:49] Mark Corbett: Yeah, that was, that was a strange move.

[00:33:51] Mark Corbett: I felt like they brought in Hiam to do some hatchet work at the beginning, to be quite honest with you. And, and I thought, you poor son of a gun, you know? But they said, oh, why don't you got the race, uh, mentality, don't you? Go ahead and just cut the budget. Cut it, cut it. But I am so glad to see this year looking so well for you guys, and I'm, I'm really curious to see how it all plays out.

[00:34:11] Mark Corbett: I do have to ask as far as relievers, were you surprised to see Radus Chapman on your uh, roster? 

[00:34:18] Nat Gordo: Oh yeah, big time. I mean, going into the off season, every, like, everything, every, I mean, you, you watch the games last year and you, you talk to people with the team and they all say the same thing. It's like, we need velocity, we need someone from the left hand side.

[00:34:33] Nat Gordo: So like, yes, that's, that's Chapman right there. Like he is all velocity and he, and he throws from the left side. Yeah, but did I, did I actually think that the Red Sox would go out and get him just with the history that he's had? Uh. Both on and off the field. It's just, I, I was surprised, I'm not gonna lie, I was surprised, uh, in terms of just the pure talent alone.

[00:34:55] Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

[00:34:56] Nat Gordo: Perfect fit. But I mean, there, when you bring in a, in a rolled as Chapman, I don't, I don't care what, what his, uh, what his recent teammates have said. Apparently, you know, he's been a great teammate the last few years. He's been a great whatever. You're gonna have a lot of questions to answer. He's gonna have a lot of questions to answer and, and those questions have been asked and.

[00:35:16] Nat Gordo: You know, we will see how it goes. But you know, from a baseball perspective, he can be like, he's incredibly talented, but he can also be a tough watch. And he, he made his spring debut today, I think it was, he threw 23 pitches and only 11 of them were strikes. So he was hitting, he hit 101, so like you're in February and he is doing that, but at the same time, he's gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna walk the world too.

[00:35:37] Nat Gordo: You're gonna have to just sit there and hold your breath. 

[00:35:40] Mat Germain: The, the changeup he's added has actually made him a different pitcher. Like it's actually getting him more swings and misses, uh, despite the lowering velo, you know, on, on occasion. So he's just fun to watch and his overconfidence is just breathtaking.

[00:35:55] Mat Germain: Uh, so I, I love to, to see him on the mound and, and battling, but his off the field stuff is, is, you know, highly questionable, I guess in some cases. But the, uh. When you're looking at the division and the American League in general, I guess, uh, what teams scare you the most and, and kind of you see like, okay, let's say the Red Sox are in the hunt.

[00:36:17] Mat Germain: Which team are you looking at? Or teams? Are you saying they're gonna be tough opponents and they're gonna be, you know, uh, potential contenders along with the red? So, 

[00:36:28] Nat Gordo: well, I mean, you gotta look no further than the division, the, the a l east. There is no. Weak link in the AL East there, there almost never is.

[00:36:41] Nat Gordo: Um, you can make an argument that, that a few of the best teams in the al are in the AL East. I think. I think a team that's not in the AL East that people are maybe sleeping on a little bit is the Texas Rangers. I think they could, they could be in line for a big bounce back season, but another team that you know, maybe, I don't know, maybe nationally they're not getting slept on, but I think Red Sox fans might be sleeping on how good the Yankees could be this year.

[00:37:03] Nat Gordo: Because you know they lost Juan Soto. I don't, I don't necessarily think that they got better, but for a team that lost Juan Soto, they are, they did about as, as good as you could do for yourself. Having lost I. In my opinion, the, the most talented bat in the game. Uh, they're a deeper team. They've got plenty of starting pitching depth and high end starting pitching.

[00:37:28] Nat Gordo: They've got, uh, maybe the best closer in baseball to go along with a pretty deep bullpen in the lineup, steeper. So maybe they don't have quite the same bats to protect Aaron Judge and, you know, surround him like, like Soto last year, you know. You, you could be, you know, in the five slot in the lineup and you're counting the amount of baters you have left until you get back to the Soto Judge Tandem.

[00:37:49] Nat Gordo: And there's, that's gone. But I mean, you've got Cody Bellinger, you've got Paul Goldschmidt, you got Jazz Chisholm in that lineup. And then John Carlos stand if he gets healthy. Uh, and then of course young kids that that could break through. Jason Dominguez, Austin Wells. Like both those guys, Anthony Volpe, I still think has more in the, in the tank to tap into offensively.

[00:38:11] Mark Corbett: Yeah. 

[00:38:12] Nat Gordo: So there, there's, there is a ceiling with that team and, and people are gonna make fun of him and people are gonna sleep on him, but they're definitely to be taken seriously in my opinion. 

[00:38:22] Mat Germain: I think it depends a lot like the Yankees have a knack for bringing veterans in who overperform once they arrive, uh, like Paul Goldschmidt would be one that could do that.

[00:38:32] Mat Germain: I just don't know that the bad speed is there. I also think Jared Cole has shown glimpses of falling, you know, backwards a little bit. Uh, so if the health worries, he's got a lot of innings on that arm. If he were to fall, I'm not sure they have the pitching depth. To replace him. They got lucky last year with Louis Heel.

[00:38:51] Mat Germain: Uh, I didn't see that coming. I am first in line to say I really didn't think that he would perform the way he did. I don't know many that did. Um, but they, you know, they're organi. They're an organization that will push to kind of, um. Plug some holes, but I, Brian Cashman, if enough chips fall aside, he's not really an active in-season gm.

[00:39:15] Mat Germain: He's more of a, like you're saying, he did the off-season work than he normally usually sits back and then they have a hot streak, they have a cold streak and they ride it out. And however it ends up being, it ends up being, so I guess my point would be I have, I don't have much faith in them having the pieces to move around to improve if things were to go astray.

[00:39:35] Mat Germain: Not like the Red Sox, not like the Orioles, not like the rays who have layers and layers and layers of depth. I also think there's a lot of pressure on Jason Dominguez. Mm-hmm. To replace world. Yes. Soto and that can crush a player. It doesn't matter. Like I've seen it with Travis Snyder. I saw it with a bunch of other guys that were really talented, thrown into the fire and expected to carry a load that was too heavy for them.

[00:39:57] Mat Germain: So those would be my fears with with the Yankees. And I also think the Braves, letting their ace go the way they did, tells me that they may know something about him. That isn't really, you know, being talked about enough. And so the, the Yankees did that once with, so with a pitcher where they brought him in and he ended up not pitching almost the entire season.

[00:40:19] Mat Germain: Um, so I, you know what I, I love to bash on the Yankees, I will admit. Yeah, yeah. But you know, you could do that with any team, but I would say the one team you didn't mention that. In the American League that I would say is a, a good opponent this year, which is gonna surprise a lot of people are the royals.

[00:40:35] Mat Germain: Um, I think they've done a lot of work to add a group together that's very cohesive. Pl plays well together, has grown up together in a lot of cases, and they added enough depth to kind of, um, you know, make it an interesting year out of the central because the central's always a little bit lacking in competitiveness, I think.

[00:40:56] Nat Gordo: Yeah, the, the central is maybe the mo most interesting division in the al this year, just because you look at teams that, that could have low floors, but high ceilings, like not just the, the Royals who like, yeah, they're gonna be dependent on guys like Seth Lugo and, and Michael Waka to do it again, which is not a certainty, but I mean, they, they added to the team that they had last year, so they should be good.

[00:41:17] Nat Gordo: Uh, tigers are another one where, you know, if most of last year they weren't very good and. In September, they were, and they've got Ter Scobel and they added Jack Flaherty back and they added Gle Torre. And you know, they actually tried this off season. They added Tommy Kaley in the bullpen. I, I really like him.

[00:41:35] Nat Gordo: So they're gonna be a team that that tries to compete. And then you got the Cleveland guardians who were the best team in that division last year, and they've lost talent. So, I don't know, I mean. It, it, it's anyone's guess. The twins are another one where like, they were solid last year, but they really didn't get any better.

[00:41:52] Nat Gordo: I don't, I don't really know where that team's going. I know they're up, they're up for sale, so I know that's contributing to it. But yeah, that division to me is a big mystery. 

[00:42:01] Mat Germain: Yeah, I think the, the Astros are taking a step back, obviously by losing Bregman. I know ESOP parades will do well with them, especially in that stadium.

[00:42:10] Mat Germain: Uh, but I think, you know, there's enough question marks around. You know, losing Bregman and Tucker, that, that, that I don't think there's another team that's lost as much offense, and that's including Juan Soto leading the Yankees, so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:42:25] Nat Gordo: Yeah. That's another reason why I'm, why I'm bullish on the Rangers this year, is just the Astros.

[00:42:29] Nat Gordo: It's gonna be, I mean, don't count 'em out until they're out, but it's gonna be an uphill battle. Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:37] Mark Corbett: Wow. I can't thank you enough, NA, for being with us today. Uh, I'd like to hear a little bit more about your podcast play Tey. Could you tell us a little bit about, uh, that and some of the shows you've got coming up?

[00:42:48] Mark Corbett: I. 

[00:42:49] Nat Gordo: Yeah, play, play test's. Had an awesome winter. We've been dropping three episodes a week, talking Red Sox, just all the time. Always. There's always something to talk about, even, even in like the depths of the off season when you, like, what, what the hell are they gonna talk about? We, we always have a good time with it.

[00:43:04] Nat Gordo: Uh, we're making a trip to Fort Myers, uh, in the mid to end part of March, sort of to wrap up camp. Uh, and so. We will be excited to, to catch up with some of the players there. Hopefully get some, uh, interviews, either on the podcast or social content stuff. So we'll be dropping those things maybe, you know, towards the end of March, which, uh, which will be fun.

[00:43:27] Nat Gordo: It'll be exciting. But yeah, mean, we're just, we're just excited to, to get the season started. It's just, it's, it's been a long off season, even though like the end result for the socks. We're, we're happy with it. It took a while to get there, so it's, it's been, it's been exhausting and I'm just excited to be able to watch.

[00:43:47] Nat Gordo: Actual meaningful baseball games again. Yeah. 

[00:43:50] Mark Corbett: Yeah. Well, I'm glad to hear you're gonna be coming on down here to Flo Rita to, uh, to see it down at Fort Myers. I might have to make a little trek down there myself. I'm up here in Tampa these days and Matt's up here just a little further north than you guys, Nova Scotia.

[00:44:04] Mark Corbett: So, uh, but my gosh, it's, I'm, I'm looking forward to the season. I'm glad to see that you guys are enjoying the depth that you have and God bless us all. Well, let's, let's put the. Pull the Yankees all the way down to fifth and a Let's do it. Let's do it. I in, I'm in. 

[00:44:21] Mat Germain: Yeah. To count. It's done. 

[00:44:25] Mark Corbett: Okay. Thanks again, Dan, for joining us today.

[00:44:27] Mark Corbett: You're on baseball Business On Deck. It's been a pleasure having you here, my friend, and uh, we hope to have you back again real soon too. Thanks for having me on guys. Alrighty. 

[00:44:36] Nat Gordo: Man. 

[00:44:37] Mark Corbett: Hey, Nat, that was fantastic. I appreciate it. You got the thanks for sharing so much with us and 

[00:44:42] Nat Gordo: yeah, that was a good time.

[00:44:43] Nat Gordo: Thank you guys. 

[00:44:44] Mark Corbett: You've got an exciting team, man. It's gonna be interesting to watch 'em this year, so fingers 

[00:44:49] Nat Gordo: crossed. All right, brother. You feel pretty good about it. But thank you guys, appreciate it. All right, we'll talk soon. All right. Alright, take care. All right. See you guys. Bye. Yeah, it worked 

[00:44:59] Mark Corbett: out pretty well.